Ozpin (
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soddersays2021-04-20 09:14 am
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Player Plot on the Backburner: Sleeper Council
Just a note about the IC fallout of a recent string of network threads!
Ironwood (RWBY) made this post about a recent Maul incident and rule of law, which has blown up to ~800 comments and counting. Ozpin (RWBY), who is familiar with Ironwood's fascist bullshit and much prefers his own imperialistic bullshit, stepped in to suggest Deerington select a group of leaders as the dream falls apart.
Wu (TLoK) is in eager agreement, and wants to create an interim "Sleeper Council" to oversee resource management, rebuilding efforts, and internal justice. The main thread can be threadjacked here. Responses vary from "why didn't we do that years ago" to "that system is a terrible idea" to "guys please the sky is literally falling rn."
With endgame at the doorstep and everyone wrapping up arcs, we don't want to clutter things with a political player plot now, but! For those of y'all coming to CH2, read on.
In CH2, Oz and Wu are likely to propose a 5-7 person elected council. OOCly, this would be a banner under which community-building player plots could be held (like Mako's resource caches, Wu's safehouse, fallout from PC rampage plots if desired, etc). The goal is to create structure similar to FEAR's leadership and give characters an outlet for political intrigue in the new world. We're sure that some characters won't be into this, and half the fun will be seeing how Sleepers argue over the idea.
Feel free to comment here with thoughts on how your character falls on the issue of Sleeper governance, whether you'd like to get involved with Wu and Ozpin in the remaining months of CH1, and what you might want to take into CH2.
Enjoy your endgame!
- Rona (Ozpin) and Mads (Wu)
UPDATE: Having discussed further with players and mods, we think that whether or not there is IC favor for a new Sleeper organization, we will ultimately have the effort ICly fail. The player plot will just be the proposal of a council and subsequent political arguing, not the successful creation of a council itself. The status quo will remain untouched! This keeps the plot more tidy and self-contained.
Those who want to opt in to discussions about Sleeper leadership can do so by tagging the thread linked above, and keep an eye out for a similar conversation in CH2. Those who aren't interested can safely ignore all mention.
Thanks, everyone!
Ironwood (RWBY) made this post about a recent Maul incident and rule of law, which has blown up to ~800 comments and counting. Ozpin (RWBY), who is familiar with Ironwood's fascist bullshit and much prefers his own imperialistic bullshit, stepped in to suggest Deerington select a group of leaders as the dream falls apart.
Wu (TLoK) is in eager agreement, and wants to create an interim "Sleeper Council" to oversee resource management, rebuilding efforts, and internal justice. The main thread can be threadjacked here. Responses vary from "why didn't we do that years ago" to "that system is a terrible idea" to "guys please the sky is literally falling rn."
With endgame at the doorstep and everyone wrapping up arcs, we don't want to clutter things with a political player plot now, but! For those of y'all coming to CH2, read on.
In CH2, Oz and Wu are likely to propose a 5-7 person elected council. OOCly, this would be a banner under which community-building player plots could be held (like Mako's resource caches, Wu's safehouse, fallout from PC rampage plots if desired, etc). The goal is to create structure similar to FEAR's leadership and give characters an outlet for political intrigue in the new world. We're sure that some characters won't be into this, and half the fun will be seeing how Sleepers argue over the idea.
Feel free to comment here with thoughts on how your character falls on the issue of Sleeper governance, whether you'd like to get involved with Wu and Ozpin in the remaining months of CH1, and what you might want to take into CH2.
Enjoy your endgame!
- Rona (Ozpin) and Mads (Wu)
UPDATE: Having discussed further with players and mods, we think that whether or not there is IC favor for a new Sleeper organization, we will ultimately have the effort ICly fail. The player plot will just be the proposal of a council and subsequent political arguing, not the successful creation of a council itself. The status quo will remain untouched! This keeps the plot more tidy and self-contained.
Those who want to opt in to discussions about Sleeper leadership can do so by tagging the thread linked above, and keep an eye out for a similar conversation in CH2. Those who aren't interested can safely ignore all mention.
Thanks, everyone!
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Edit: And now for my thoughts with Ozpin!
If all this seems like a power grab by Ironwood followed by a competing power grab by Ozpin, that's because it is. In canon, Oz has been a king or a cult leader half a dozen times, and once went "hm! every country in the world will now adopt a 5-person democratic council system because I say so." He is less likely to claim a direct position of power, and MUCH more likely to try chessmastering people he can influence into the seats.
None of this is done with ill intent, he just... is a manipulative motherfucker and will get more manipulative the more invested he becomes. He is particularly interested in hampering Ironwood's obvious attempt to become Deerington Commander-in-Chief with TRUST as his personal militia, but in such a way that he still appears to be backing Ironwood's broader political efforts.
He'll try to author 90% of the political system but sell it publicly as 90% Wu's idea, because he's aware his shady rep is too widely known and he doesn't want to risk a public callout.
If you need someone to nudge pieces into place or be an "advisor" behind an otherwise hesitant character, he's your man.
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Albert Wesker (RE) will have you to know he is not a fascist, he's a hegemonist. He's also expressed no interest in politics (outside of proposing an oligarchy of immortals. Hmmm...), but it would be hilarious if someone nominated him so he can turn it down.
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Anyone elected will be pestered/challenged a lot by someone
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sounds like a neat ongoing complication in their CR!
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That said, as long as nobody's holding rushed "elections" while the dream falls apart, he probably won't push back against it in CH2.
In fact, he'd be interested in helping out with community outreach — namely, checking with folks on a 1-on-1 basis to make sure they've got adequate food, shelter, medical care, etc. (Currently things he does on his own time, so the only difference for him would be whether he reports to somebody/is given direction about who to contact.)
He's garbage at planning or organization. Or at least, vocally insists that he's garbage at it lmao. So odds of him angling for any kind of leadership position is pretty low, IMO. At the same time, druids in his canon tend to become community leaders in some capacity. But what that actually LOOKS like will probably be part of his character arc in CH2. And if it is, it'll most certainly be divorced from politics.
TL;DR - side-eying the HELL out of the timing of all this, but will be open to at least doing community outreach under the council's umbrella in CH2. Zero political ambitions, so nobody needs to worry about a rival fascist/imperialist sneaking into their ranks.
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like ah yes
shadiness 110% confirmed
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So, for his own sanity, he's focusing on community building activities instead.
Short term plans that are starting to be discussed on Plurk and a little ICly are going to be teaching people basic gardening and homesteading skills-- everything from growing tomatoes to making and canning preserves from foraged berries. A longer term plan involves trying to set up a community garden so everyone can help each other with their herbs, flowers, and vegetables... And potentially starting something of a seed bank so they can rebuild in case of disaster.
He may be destined to be an all powerful wizard, but he's still a farmhand at heart. This is his strength and he's going to use it.
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I cannot WAIT to cause Oscar simply so many headaches.
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She wants to believe they are both better than they were at home but she's cautious about it too.
She's going to be focused on more community based things but is definitely willing to back a candidate she likes and if no one like that appears she'll stand up herself.
Her short term goals are making sure supplies run smoothly and the people who need protection get it.
Long term going into Chapter 2 she's probably going to be looking into organizing scouting parties to find and gather supplies in whatever new world they end up in. Or just in general jack of trades helper outers.
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That said, she's not nearly well-versed enough or motivated enough to lay out the struggles of creating a government or the fact that it requires a combination of power, trust, stability, and obedience to create the social contract that allows society to function and people to maintain leadership/governance/what have you.
So she'll just call it stupid and a powergrab and then proceed to ignore it. Everyone can do what they want, just as long as it doesn't effect her and she's not expected to play along, that kind of thing.
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Ozpin will cheerfully ignore this and continue his powergrab thank you
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She would not be against the idea of creating a council or other government-like structure during Chapter 2, when the world is stable. And she has the political upbringing to be willing to assist in the creation of something. Her family is a political one, and while she hates her father, she's taken some of the lessons from his rise to heart. So, yeah, come round 2? She'll help figure something out. She might even step up and offer her name if it becomes a foregone conclusion that it's happening and no candidate shows up that she'd like.
But right now she's more concerned about the dream tearing apart.
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That being said.....the man was raised by Sidious after all and took over an entire planet before in a coup that lead to the death of its former leader, the current leader, and left Maul securely on top of the heap. So he does have an interest in politics for all he can be a bit of a brute and thinks politics involve killing all your opponents so they can't rise up against you. With his newfound sense of trying to do things for other people instead of just himself, he is gonna be interested in this, even if he knows a LOT of people would like to toss him in a garbage fire where he belongs.
Hear him out! Like there's a lot of folks here who are not good or moral and tend to range into the grey to dark area like he does. They need representation too! And Maul feels he's been here a year, so he's not going anywhere, he's interacted with a lot of Sleepers so he's learned a lot of different viewpoints, and of those grey or outright evil characters, he's one of the few actively trying to change. So yeah, despite everyone else probably thinking this is the worst idea EVER and it might indeed be, Maul is gonna be throwing his hat into the arena at least at first.
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But if Maul does shift up and is actually working for the people around him, she'd at least be as willing to hear him out as much as the other people she doesn't approve of being involved with all of this.
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Really, all she wants is...for her and other Sleepers not to die. And she knows that's not going to work all the time. And if they're fighting each other, it's pretty darn likely that whatever is out there is going to have an easier time chewing them up and spitting them out.
She does know she's missed a lot but...good idea, but the sky is falling. Look at it. It's all over the place. We need a broom.
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He's looking for a council with limited scope, not really a government at all, but a group who Sleepers could be trusted to help others out and follow a set of guidelines. Like for Wu, he was recently killed by Sam, and Raleigh decided to get revenge for him by beating up Sam. In this future world, Wu would be able to go to the council to ask them to mediate between him and Sam, so no one feels the need to take matters into their own hands, and so Sam doesn't get away with it and kill more people (even though he already did, even though the devil make him do it).
All that said, reiterating what we said in the post that nothing will happen in Deer 1, at least from these two. Our plan is to have them discuss it and start to have the makings of a plan that will be proposed in Deer 2, if it still makes sense.
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He believes he's in it for the right reasons - he wants to protect the Sleepers, he wants some sort of leadership in place, he wants structure rather than chaos. All the constant murder clearly isn't just the town's fault. James has experience with politics and running city-states and once he's calmed down a little he'll try to be more appealing to the broader Sleeper community.
It is also worth noting that James Ironwood pushed and pushed and pushed his country into a dictatorship with him at the head - from his current canonpoint he hasn't declared martial law yet but is already considering it and had already been pushing things through the council. (But I might update him by deer2*, to be fair). And that's the beginning of shit he pulls. Power + Ironwood is a bad combination.
So if he's still around by then he'll definitely be interested - and also it would probably be a bad plan ICly to let him. OOCly there's stuff I could play with him whether or not he actually succeeds, and I'm definitely willing to plot with people to make things more interesting.
Slides in an edit also: it's also worth noting that the council, even if he got on it, probably wouldn't even afford him the power that he wants, not giving him enough scope. Won't stop him from trying, but I'm not intending for him to take over the game either.
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At the same time? They're a bunch of anti-authoritarian free-wheeling self-proclaimed heroes protecting folks from monsters with their heavily armed arsenal of ...
Damn, this is sounding familiar isn't it?
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In Ch. 2 she will reluctantly concede that if they're in it for the long term, they're going to need some semblance of organization. She will be in support of community building over politics and will be opposed to any idea of a council having actual law making power, judgment of crimes, etc. She will also be hypocritical and only support her personal friends, which happens to include Wu, but we'll see how that shakes out.
Vira-Lorr/Neo
Vira-Lorr - Now here's where things get complicated.
Anyone who's been around and pays attention to FEAR might have caught a certain running theme in the organization's leadership. Majima Goro led it first and was actively "Anti-Authoritarian" and against any sort of formalized protocols for the teams. Bucky Barnes is ... well, the Winter Soldier so I'm pretty sure many of you know just how Anti-government that boy ended up being. Their respective seconds in command held similar views, and many of the team leads like Moira, Angela, Bones and the like were at most 'neutral' to the idea of leadership.
Vira-Lorr kept that tradition going. For all that she was, at one time, a General in an army for several decades, she ended up on the outs with four different governments corrupted by darkness and spent 200+ years of her life as a free-wheeling hippy out in the hinterlands because fuck human authority, nobody tells her what to do. So, when she took over, she was willing to regiment things at Usagi and others' request to get the patrols running more smoothly and start monthly addresses as PSAs, but she actively refuses to turn FEAR into a prison or police force. She and Winter Schnee have had some interesting talks on the lack of leadership in the town, but she's been pretty clear that she doesn't think the heavily armed commandos who fight monsters are suited as town leaders, and that the town is too much in 'flux' to create stable government.
So, while she thinks Ironwood's heart is "In the Right Place" she's not on board with any serious talk of government pre-Julia awakening. She's helped Wu in the past, and she likes him a lot, thinks he really means well, but she doesn't think until after Julia wakes that there's any chance the plans could work.
In chapter 2, however, this may change. However, something to be prepared for is to expect Vira-Lorr to actively step back from anything remotely like leadership among the Sleepers. She's fucking exhausted. And, as long as they're not starting a tyrannical government she just doesn't want to be the deciding party. She'd rather sit on her porch, sip virgin mint chulips and just relax for the next decade. She never wanted to be in charge in the first place.
However, because I do know both Ozpin and Ironwood pretty well as characters I can say that she would be ... cool to Oz's ideas of government, though not necessarily actively opposed. And she and Ironwood are almost certainly going to come to loggerheads at some point. She's a borderline Anarchist. His view of the need for rigid control will never sit well with her, so I'm expecting there to be opposition.
As a player? I'm interested to see what you guys come up with going into Chapter 2, since I fully expect political plotting to be a thing or at least a possibility. Just think of her as a three eyed fly in the ointment.
Richie & Joyce
wheezes but okay.
both Richie and Joyce’s immediate, knee-jerk reactions to this idea being brought up now, at this time, are great big Fuck Nos, bc both of them are focused nearly entirely on surviving the next few months. however, they have different underlying reasons for distrusting anyone proposing this idea: Joyce just straight up doesn’t trust anyone Officially in a position of power over people, having seen and been a victim of the kind of abuses they can enact on other people, not if she doesn’t know them as people first (she trusts Hopper and goes to him every time something goes wrong, but she doesn’t go to any other police officer). Richie meanwhile grew up in Derry, where people tended to look the other way, and then spent time in a game where criminal PCs tended to get away with a few months’ probation no matter how bad shit got, so he has very little faith in this council and anyway thinks the timing is completely fucked.
(he hasn’t quite realized it’s power grab after power grab just yet, but he honestly would not be surprised to find that out. adults are the worst!)
I do think that between them Joyce can be convinced to at least participate in the democratic process, but only in like Deer2 - as things stand, she’s currently focusing on staying alive. Richie can’t be convinced either way but he will happily show up just to make a mockery of the proceedings. he might even submit a joke nomination.
please don’t let Richie Tozier submit his Mimikyu as a member of the council.
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as he tries and fails to sway Joyce, who can smell a child-endangering politician from ten miles off
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Michael
Come Chapter 2, he'll be very into the idea of community organization! As someone who's good at planning and...sort of community management, he'd very much like to be involved in the more low-key stuff people are circulating like community gardens and outreach efforts. He likes the idea of pulling together for mutual aid purposes.
He likes the idea of a law-making council, particularly one that can judge and punish people, far less! Michael's just distrustful of anyone trying to set themselves up as an authority, and very personally invested in ideals of transformative justice. Having to practically apply that here is pretty darn different from doing it in the afterlife, but all the talk of throwing people in prison earlier honestly just kinda disturbed him. He doesn't agree with it on principle, and also thinks it's a slippery slope - the town makes people do bad shit all the time, what if this council uses that as a pretext to go after people they just don't like? Are they acting as cops, jury, and judge all rolled up into one?
Despite his anti-authoritarian leanings, he's actually in a leadership position and on a general council at home, so he does still know how all that works. It's probably a little different among immortals, but regardless - he might enter the ring himself if he distrusted enough of the other candidates, or just felt uncomfortable enough with the vibe that the whole thing was taking. He has no real interest in politics, but he figures the best way to try and keep things from going bad is to be there to keep an eye on them himself. That's mostly a last resort, though; he'd much rather just not have this be a thing at all.
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bella on the other hand is old enough to vote and is panicked by the idea of the pressure of civic duty. she's also a very lowkey "fuck the man" type, so she'll be veeeeerrryyy wary of everyone wanting power.
marshmallow the demon horse should really be president, thank u for coming 2 my ted talk.
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... That's Shiro, basically. He'd probably support Wu's effort, if it came down to it in Chapter 2, but honestly, he's been here long enough to see having concentrated "bodies" to fix things don't really... do much. He's been jaded, really. I'm not sure if/how it'll change when Chapter 2 comes up, but at the moment, this is a big "nah".
OOCly, I think this'd be interesting to follow and do more with! But ICly, the dude is definitely not sure it'd work. If anyone ended up asking him to be involved, he would be. But not until Chapter 2 for sure.
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Lucifer and Higgs
Not sure what they can do about it, because while Maul does need punishment, what can you really do when people don't stay dead and there's no indication of this world, or another world, being any safer? He'd probably want to be involved in the government in some way, since he's a police consultant in canon, but he'd really only start loudly fighting it if the government started terrorizing the populace at large.
He's definitely not interested in being a candidate himself, though, and would be suspicious of anyone claiming to have all the answers.
Higgs is the harder sell since he's another anti-authoritarian, though more in an anarchy way than Lucifer's problems with a revenge-based/control-based government. He also doesn't think Maul did anything wrong, but that's a Him Problem he's going to have to deal with.
Free of bad canon influences, he's not going to be horrible about the whole thing, he's just going to voice his displeasure about people telling him what he can and can't do.
He's part of a canon faction that very openly opposed joining a country and has very strong opinions about how people should be the ones bettering their community, not governments. He's also from a world that is falling apart even worse than Deerington is currently and has inside knowledge of how great the people running the country are. Hint: it's always fascism.
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he may get dragged into neutrality by obi-wan and qui-gon tho.
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In Ch2 this is going to continue. He's not going to see any reason for a government when he'll think they can still get on fine without. He's also incredibly concerned about the slippery slope about where to draw the line with punishment, since he's an ex-villain who has done crimes in game both due to and without the town's influence affecting him.
He's not against community support and will be continuing to help Sleepers with community projects like delivery/defense/construction/food supplies (the kid's a walking garden lol)/whatever, but those can obviously be done without a government in place (see Mako's supply network and Eddie's healing house).
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( i had to, ok )
Obi-Wan is unlikely to potentially meddle if it is the will of the people since Jedi are servants of the peace. However, Obi-wan has fought the Clone Wars and been somewhat involved in the Senate (plus the Palpatine info and his potential update to the end of Revenge of the Sith) means he'll scrutinise this heavily. People have been managing resources, taking care of each other fine without the need of delegation. In his eyes, people care. Have always cared and taken care of each other without need for authority, favor or recompense. That is how it should be. People helping each other.
In the matter of internal justice, that is something Obi-wan could weigh on since Jedi are peace-keepers and essentially neutral. So, depending on how it plays out, he would be willing to offer service. However, his alarm bells are ringing when it comes to Ironwood and a larger governing body and he will intervene a little more strongly.
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Varian has a lot of canon experience with leaders covering things up or making detrimental choices against their people in order to save face, so he'll be VERY staunchly anti government going into ch2- especially with Ozpin at the helm, because he does not trust that guy AT ALL. Especially with the power grab going on right now.
He'll always support sleepers helping one another out with caches, or providing services and the like. Heck, he did this himself in October with antidotes, do he knows that's important. He just does not like the idea of anyone holding positions of power over others. Especially in a place where people's mental states can be altered with no warning. He's a former villain too so there's no small amount of self preservation there, because he knows first hand how swiftly people can be vilified if someone in charge says so. He don't like this at all, fam.
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In Chapter 2, I'm very interested in getting her involved in long-term food production and herbal remedies. I actually don't know if her orchard is going to survive the shift. I'm guessing no, but I'll ask at some point.